 | |  | |  | |  | |  | |  |
Head to Head with Mitch Winthrop
A legend and pioneer in North America's house music scene.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Motive:
Thanks for taking the time to do this interview. Let's start at the beginning...how did you get into DJing?
Mitch Winthrop:
It was 1979. I used to go to a youth centre every Friday night when I was a kid. It was in Elia Junior High, not far from Jane
& Finch. They'd open up the school for floor hockey and basketball. Basically just to keep the kids off the street.
Me and my friends were little disco/funk kids. We used to spend our Saturday nights listening to CKFM's Saturday night
disco show, live from Sparkles nightclub. And we were at that age where we were all becoming horny kids.... so we wanted
to have a disco dance to play all the music we taped off the radio, and to dance with girls.
So we convinced the organizer to let us DJ a dance... and me and about 5 other friends got together and pooled our stereos
and went to Long & McQuade to rent some speakers and a mixer. It was like The Little Rascals or Our Gang trying to put on
a show. Everyone pitched in. People we didn't know brought disco lights... and we had this dance in the gym, playing the
music we taped off the radio.
We made enough money to go for pizza with our "crew" after the dance.
Mark Motive:
So were you going reel to reel or were you using regular home stereo tape decks?
Mitch Winthrop:
Back in those days cassettes were our world. Doing pause button edits were the beginning of what later would become our
mix-tapes. But we used vinyl too. 12 inch singles were relatively a new concept, so these HUGE one-song records were
fascinating to me... But ya, that first dance featured a lot of stuff we had on cassette.
No reel to reels back then for us. I don't think I ever starting using reels until much later.
Mark Motive:
So did that dance give you the bug to keep going? How did you feel after doing it?
Mitch Winthrop:
I think I already had a pretty strong bug... not so much to DJ, although I was interested in the concept of DJing, but more for
music. I was obsessive about music from the time I was really little.
In hindsight, I probably was fascinated with DJing... I used to wait for the Wolfman on that Hilarious House of Frightenstien
show... I remember seeing American Hot Wax, the movie about Alan Freed, the radio DJ who gave birth to the term "Rock &
Roll"... it all was a huge interest of mine.
Mark Motive:
Where did you get your musical obsession from?
Mitch Winthrop:
When I was really little, I would get allowance. I can't remember how much... but it was probably only a couple bucks. I
might have been 8 years old... and I would walk from my house over by Sentinel and over to Jane Finch Mall to Towers...
Every week I’d get a taco (cuz there was no Taco Bell back then) and one 45 from the record store there. They had the
CHUM Chart on the wall... with cubby holes for each single, in the order of the latest "top 40 CHUM (am) Chart"... and then I'd
walk back home eating my taco and ready to play that one 45 every day, all day until next week when I could buy another.
I'm not sure what sparked the love for music. It might have been the idea of just having a new cool looking round thing to
play. But I was definitely developing discerning taste.
Mark Motive:
So after that dance did you continue to do more? How did you develop into DJing more regularly?
Mark Motive:
And did it help you get chicks? haha
Mitch Winthrop:
oh ya... two of the guys in our "crew" were from a huge extended Jamaican family.... so we were all getting opportunities to
do backyard and basement parties. That Sean Paul video for "Get Busy" is very much similar to what we were doing
(although we were playing everything from Earth Wind & Fire, lots of disco and funk, and of course reggae too). By the time I
was entering high school we were doing a lot of school dances, parties for friends, and LOTS of sweet sixteen parties. By
now this was the mid-eighties, so we were all about funk (which back then included the first hip-hop records, R&B/soul,
electro and of course all the REAL funk stuff). We even got into some new wave too.
I'm not sure if DJing got us chicks... but this was around the time we were 16, so we were fully chasing girls by then.
I'd like to think my cute looks and charm got me the chicks.
Mark Motive:
hah
Mitch Winthrop:
It wasn't until much later (now?) that I got dates just cuz I was a DJ. lol
Mark Motive:
So we're in the mid-eighties now and house music is starting to evolve into something in NYC and Chicago...what was
your experience?
Mitch Winthrop:
I was already fully DJing by the mid-80s. I guess in hindsight I was a bit of a "prodigy" among my friends... cuz I was still in
highschool, and I had hooked up with a DJ agency I saw advertise in the newspaper... I went down to an interview with them
and had to audition. By grade 12 I was doing 2-3 nights a week... often just filling in for other DJs.... making about $75 a
night.
So by 18 I was making over $200 a week DJing in places like O'Tooles, Pat & Marios, Pete & Marty's... and I was always
obsessive about the new, hot thing to play as a DJ.
At the same time, by 16 I was starting to go to The Twilight Zone.
So from going there, which at first WASN'T playing house music, but was featuring a lot of the other stuff I was into (electro,
funk, good upbeat soul/R&B, freestyle), and from already constantly being on top of the latest dance records, I started to
hear what would later be labeled "House Music".
Mark Motive:
Now, some people hated it when they first heard it, and then grew to like it...what did you think?
Mitch Winthrop:
But I don't think the first "real" house records started to emerge until I was about 18-19.
Those people I'm not aware of. I LOVED house from day ZERO. And so did just about everyone I knew.
There were a lot of records that came out that we didn't think of as "house" until much later. In fact, my friends were calling
that music "Zone Music" cuz that's where we heard most of it. Like friends would say, "I got this wicked cassette of Zone
music." and also, by then I was starting to get obsessive about my other passion, radio. So I was coming back from New
York with tapes of the radio shows there.
Most music doesn't get a name until someone in the media (often the UK music press) gives it a name. We just thought it
was this new sound of dance music... although I think we were probably still calling it "funk" back then... or some sub-genre
of it. It wasn't until Dance Music Report (THE magazine for DJs back then) started to talk about this new style of music... and
said it was..."house".
In hindsight, cuz we weren't really conscious of it at the time, it was soon after that all these UK compilations started to come
out with the word "House" in it. I remember reading an article in DMR saying house was the new hot thing... and when they
described it, it was all these new (somewhat unique) records I already had.
(By the way, DMR was actually a New York based magazine. Not a UK one.)
Mark Motive:
Was this around the time you progressed from basement parties/backyard parties to playing in the club scene?
Mitch Winthrop:
But I should stress, I think it probably had to be my experiences at The Twilight Zone that really fueled my attraction to this
new music. I mean, I could've easily gone down the Freestyle or hip-hop (which back then I loved equally) path had I hung
out at a different club.
Well, I was already DJing in clubs by then through that agency. By the time I was out of highschool I was DJing at Mr.
Grummps, which had three locations. I had one of my first real "residencies" at the one in Richmond Hill... but I often filled
in at the one in the Atrium near the Eaton Centre and the one at Yonge & Eglinton (now a Mandarin restaurant). Mr.
Grummps was actually pretty hot...for what it was, cuz a lot of people would go there and eat and dance until it closed... and
then go to the Twilight Zone. So... I was able to play a lot of similar music... as well as new-wave-ish stuff like Pet Shop
Boys, Depeche Mode, Magazine 60....
This was all around '87 by then.
And at that point, I was just starting my first year at York U. Before I even went to my first class, I went to CHRY to beg for a
radio show. I had already been listening to CKLN... so I really wanted my own show. Any show. It didn't even have to be a
house music show.
Mark Motive:
So how did that turn out?
Mitch Winthrop:
I had to do a bit of begging until they let me do a show. But my timing was lucky. The radio station was still only closed-
circuit... but the week they finally gave me (what was then called) the "nightclubbing" show, CHRY had JUST got their FM
license. So for the first 6 months or so I would do this show that only other students would hear.... if they cared enough to
turn the volume up in the various cafeterias on campus.
And then, once the station was ready with its new transmitter, the following spring, I had already had the show and a bunch
of months of "practice."
This was 1987 still when CHRY went on FM.
Mark Motive:
What were you taking at York? What were your career aspirations at that point? Were you thinking DJ full time?
Radio? Both?
Mitch Winthrop:
Again, in hindsight... I think I only went to York because it was the thing to do. I was an English/Mass Communications
major. I really wanted to do radio stuff. I loved the Mass Comm classes. Hated the English (although now I'm glad I took
those classes). I even had a few "electives" like this class, "Popular music and its role in defining 20th Century culture" (or
something like that...it's been a few years). I loved that class. But again, by then I was already doing a LOT of DJing in clubs.
Mark Motive:
How did you go from that point to Keys to the House?
Mitch Winthrop:
Hmm... well the CHRY show was The Rhythm Method. Did that for 10 years, before I passed the show on to Nick
Holder.
Since it was essentially a "college/university radio show, I wasn't getting paid. But I was getting a lot of DJ gigs out of it.
By the early 90s, I was asked to DJ at The Phoenix... as part of this huge new house night with Scott Cairns. It ended up
being live-to-air on Energy 108.... which I got to host too thanks to having experience on CHRY. I was probably horrible
then... but it was a great little era.
From there, I got to host another Energy 108 live-to-air on Saturday nights, live from Klub Maxx.
Mark Motive:
Was that with 'deadly Hedley'?
Mitch Winthrop:
So ya, it was around then that I gave the CHRY show to Nick, cuz I was living downtown (getting to York was a bitch every
week) and I felt 10 years was enough. Plus I thought doing the Energy thing was the next step.
No, it wasn't WITH Hedley, but it was where I first met him.
He did the Klub Maxx show before me. There were a few hosts between him and I. The owners were scumbags, always
hiring and firing DJs.
So....from there I also got asked to do Wayne Williams house show on Energy 108 for a while... before they cancelled the
show. Around that time (mid 90s by now), I was hearing house music on CHIN late at night.
So I fired off a letter to them to see if I could get on board. It was very raw what they were doing and ended up being a big
headache trying to deal with certain shady people there. But the good thing was that I got to get to know Don Berns, who
was the PD for CHIN's Global Groove after-hours shows.
I ended up quitting CHIN cuz I couldn't handle the shadiness, and Don soon left as well, for pretty much the same reason....
a year or so of a lull... and one day I'm walking up Yonge Street and I see Don. He said he wants me to come be a part of
this new "internet" radio station. I was skeptical of internet radio then, but I thought I'd try it out. That was the beginning of
Iceberg Media/Iceberg Radio.... and 1GROOVE.com.
I did two shows for 1GROOVE, one being Keys to the House.
(So that answers your question from an hour ago about Keys to the House. lol)
Mark Motive:
Haha. So was this also around the time you got into production?
Mitch Winthrop:
I should add that my skepticism about doing an internet show was quelled quickly... because I was already getting loads of
email from all over the world from listeners.
And it helped that after about a year or so, Iceberg struck a deal with CIUT to simulcast my show (and others) after hours....
so I had this 5 hour Saturday night show that was on FM in Toronto and on the net. The response was mind-blowing for me.
Production: I had already got into production way earlier.
My first things were (to connect with your past questions) done on reel-to-reel... just things I made for my radio show. I think
the first thing I did was a remix of "Get On the Dancefloor" by Rob Base & Easy Rock, which was already a house song... or
hip house.
And the agency I worked for was toying with the idea of starting a label..... so I pushed them to let me do the first release,
which ended up being this silly disco-inspired sample track called "Everybody's Going Disco Crazy"... and another track
where I basically ripped off "And I Love You" by Satoshi Tomiie.
Mark Motive:
How was the reaction to your early productions?
Mitch Winthrop:
I did it with this guy Dominic Macri and Dave Campbell helped out.
I kind of ended up doing a lot of the grunt work for that first release, cuz I was determined to prove that the label was a good
idea for that DJ agency. So I was driving to the pressing plant, printers.... and back then they had this annual convention, not
unlike the WMC, but it was in New York, called the New Music Seminar.
So I went down to the NMS with loads of copies of the record... gave out a bunch to all the big DJs and went to all the record
stores in New York to leave copies on consignment there.
By the end of the week, all the shops were calling me asking for more... and during the Seminar I took the Path Train out to
New Jersey to go to The Zanzibar to give copies to Tony Humphries, who by then was by far my favourite DJ (although I liked
many others too).
Tony played it at some major industry events that were part of the NMS, and he played it on his radio show...
Mark Motive:
That's amazing man! A little elbow grease can go a long way.
Mitch Winthrop says:
One of the HAPPIEST moments in my life was being at this party held by Nervous, Strictly Rhythm, Eightball, Ace Beat and
some other labels. Every house music person in the world was there. I met Tee Scott that night, and many others. And at
the peak of the party, I'm dancing... and my girlfriend at the time punches me in the arm, going "Isn't this your song??" I just
got on a chair and watched all these "famous" industry people dancing to my first record.
Mark Motive:
Amazing!
Mitch Winthrop:
So because Tony played it, by the time I got home from New York, my answering machine was FULL (it was the old cassette
type answering machines) of requests for copies and invites to DJ all over the world.
I did start to get offers to travel based on that. I thank Tony every time I see him. I ended up DJing in Germany... and I
asked the German label that was flying me over if I could bring Nick Holder along with me, cuz I didn't want to go alone.
They were totally into that since Nick was already putting out records too, and he had a few that were huge there. So that
was the first overseas gig.
Mark Motive:
What year was this again?
Mitch Winthrop:
And, I should add that it was that trip that helped get me the Phoenix gig too.... (sorry I know I'm out of chronology here with
these stories). It was early 90s. 1992 I think. Muchmusic and Now Magazine had found out that this local DJ went to play in
Germany so I got some hype from them... which in turn, I guess, gave me some clout as a DJ in the eyes of some
promoters.
Mark Motive:
It's funny how fame makes you more famous.
Mitch Winthrop:
I guess. Or how when you're making way more money, you get more things for free!
Mark Motive:
Probably a fun thing to enjoy, but difficult to manage in the long-run. Now you're not just thinking about DJing and
making good music, but you have to start thinking of your 'brand' in a way. Did that affect your decision making?
Mitch Winthrop:
I was really wary of the "fame" thing. Some things were nice... like getting asked for autographs from young DJs... and the
often great feedback from the request lines...but I never took it for granted. It's not like we're curing cancer. And some of it is
quite negative: Other DJs trying to fuck you over for gigs, resentful DJs cuz you're employed when they're not, people who
constantly say you suck cuz you don't play their particular brand of music.... and many young DJs don't understand what's
involved with STAYING employed in this game.
You can't just go into a club the size of The Phoenix, a club that HAS to make $$, and play the latest, deepest house music,
no matter how much you love it. Certainly not back then anyway. Staying employed always involved compromise...
satisfying the majority of the crowd, satisfying the owner by way of bar sales, the promoter... etc. So I would get bummed
out when I heard other DJs were trash talking and trying to get me fired. Granted back then I was younger and much more
concerned with what people thought. Now I don't give a shit.
But it wasn't until long after The Phoenix that I really started to be happy with myself as a DJ. I don't think I was very good
back then. By the time I got to 1GROOVE and I was doing Keys to the House, I was starting to consciously forge new
territory. House was already around for well over a decade, so I wanted to try and do something unique. I wanted to bring
back that "excited" feeling...
we all got when house music first started... so I started to explore other types of house.... and was trying to find a way to
make the more soulful stuff work together with the bigger more progressive sounds I was getting turned on to.
I don't know if it was me plotting my "brand" per se, but I definitely was making an effort to NOT sound like any other DJ as
much as possibly, while still playing music that made people have some sort of emotional, cathartic experience.
I should add that after the Phoenix, I was also lucky enough to be a part of some other little "house music eras", like Power
Bar... which was amazing for what it was... and gave me a chance to test out some of my new musical ambitions to a crowd
on the dance floor. I was also starting to do a fair bit of DJing in the gay club scene (which I LOVE doing to this day).... and
that scene tends to be way more positive, fun and open-minded.... so I was totally able to explore playing the stuff I liked that
I probably couldn't play for the deep house purists in the straight house scene. Unfortunately by the mid 90s the two scenes
were already become segregated. In the early days it was very mixed. The Twilight Zone was, which was a large part of the
club's appeal. Everyone coming together, no matter who you were, all for the music.
Mark Motive:
I remember that from the warehouse party days...why did the gay people leave the scene?
Mitch Winthrop:
That's your perspective as a "breeder". LOL
They didn't "leave"... the two just split into separate scenes.
And as such, each's music went in different directions.
Mark Motive:
True - but the integration was what I really liked. I guess the gay scene is a bit more progressive/harder sounding?
Mitch Winthrop:
Well, hmm... that's a Pandora ’s Box of a question....
I think if you asked some different people, you'd get varying answers. The gay crowd tends to be much more FORWARD
thinking... in fashion, music.... So they were drawn to the new sounds... while the straight house scene tends to be very
much (and I'm generalizing to make my point) mired in the past.... much of the deep stuff to this day pays tribute to the
organic sound of disco.
Some would say the gay crowd got too "hard" musically. I don't think of it that way. Some would say the straight crowd was
boring (and there's no doubt the parties became that way)... and of course when the straight crowd dominates the dance
floor, there's homophobia.
and there's no doubt that the gay crowd probably didn't want their parties infiltrated by a bunch of drunk breeders who are
there for different reasons.
But there have always been some level of mixing in the crowds. By the mid 90s I had started to go to a lot of what would be
described as "circuit parties"... predominantely gay, huge events... that at first featured AMAZING tribal house... which was
always my favourite sub-genre.
But those parties, even with crowds the size of 30,000 in Olympic Stadium in Montreal, had about 20% or more of a straight
crowd there.
And they tended to be the "best" straight people, for lack of a better word. Beautiful women... everyone really open-minded,
positive, incredible vibe.... (the ecstasy helped, but it was much more than that fueling the experience)... while the straight
house scene started to become nothing more than "naval gazers".... a culture of misery, complainers, badmouthers and this
silly obsession with everything being "Deep" and "Soulful"... to the point that "FUN" wasn't important. It became very much
"musical jungle feverism"... as long as it sounded like a black guy did it, it was good.... and anything else was considered
"garbage" music.
Mark Motive:
I've noticed that. It's almost like you have to write 'soul' somewhere on a flyer for it to be accepted.
Mitch Winthrop:
I mean, I love my music to have raw emotion... but I wanted things to sound new, exciting.... fun.... and have some dark,
sexual energy in it too.
So I got bored with the deep house scene. BUT I should stress that in the last 5 years or so, that scene has risen to
become great again in many ways... thanks to a few key DJs who kept the soul but brought the fun back!
Mark Motive:
Which DJs do you like? Locally
Mitch Winthrop:
There’s some guys from my era that I think are, or have been, brilliant. Scott Cairns, Mark Falco (and Mark Motive!), Kevin
Williams.... shit I'm scared to name names cuz I know I'll forget someone major! These are DJs who often made me feel
like I wasn't in Toronto... cuz unfortunately most of the house DJs in Toronto were just imitating the New York DJs. And most
were only about playing their latest test pressings in some lame "penis-envy" attempt to one up the other Djs, instead of just
making a wicked party for those on the dance floor. It's sad cuz there's a whole generation of people who were "raised" on
that type of DJing and think it's good. It's NOT. It's boring and self-indulgent.
As for today... I've heard lots of great DJs that have restored my faith in the music and the city.... like Dale Arsenault... Johnny
Lopez.
But there are many more.... I've always loved hearing good DJs as much as I've loved playing myself. So pretty much ANY of
the DJs I've invited to play on my old radio shows I felt were great. Nathan Barato is one guy that always surprised me by
playing something I never thought he'd play.... and making it work.
Mark Motive:
Thanks for the plug! Let’s look towards the future now.
Mitch Winthrop:
Always!
Mark Motive:
Where do you see the scene going? What do you think needs to happen?
Mitch Winthrop:
Perspective is everything in life. I would never profess to speak for the scene.... but for ME to stay excited I would love to see
more musical open-mindedness.... and people being more forward thinking. I love my old records.... I love my old disco
records!!! But I don't want to keep reliving that feeling with the new records. I hear about "hot" records all the time and when
I go to listen...
to them, I often feel like, "ya, it's good.. But I've got a warehouse space on Dufferin filled with records that already sound like
that."
I don't mean anyone has to start playing "progressive" stuff if that's not their thing.... but I wish the deep stuff PROGRESSED
more. It sort of has with the techy stuff from Jerome Sydenham, Tiger Stripes, Pasta Boys... and even a lot of the Dennis
Ferrer stuff, which I love.... but I guess if I had a WISH, it would be that people went out with the attitude of having a great time
to a NEW experience.... and people (especially in the straight house scene) didn't get their backs up when the music didn't
EXACTLY fit their own criteria. I love that feeling of "wow, I never thought I would like this or be dancing to this!" I love when
DJs shock me by playing something totally out of their normal comfort zone. I wish there was more of that. Chance taking.
Forging NEW territory...musically.
And ALWAYS, I wish there was more kindness and INTEGRITY amongst fellow DJs. There are still way too many sleazy
people in this scene doing it for all the wrong reasons.
But I really don't have many complaints these days. I'm loving life and LOVING DJing again... and often very impressed with
the way things are now.
Mark Motive:
One last question. The younger crowds...what are your thoughts?
Mitch Winthrop:
Umm... well, not being "young" anymore... lol... I can't really speak for them. Thanks to the SHITTY state of radio today, most
are into horrible hip-hop and R&B (I love hip-hop and good soul, but that shit on the radio has to go!).
And as far as "electro" is... it's just the latest in a long line of house evolutions... like acid, hip-house, whatever. And like
anything, there's a lot of crap and some great stuff if you're willing to look for it. That's true of "garage" or "deep house" as
well, but if you love that music you don't notice the bad stuff as much. I've found quite a bit of electro I like, actually...
especially the ones that have some element of soul (read: raw emotion) in it.
But again, I don't obsess about soulful music. If it's there, great. I'll likely love it more.... but I have no problem liking records
just cuz they're fun.... or unique... or based around a cool sample or sound. Ironically, the people that obsess about soul
often forget that many of their favourite "classic house" records were basically techno and devoid of anything "soulful"… like
Voodoo Ray... or some of the old Todd Terry stuff... Even the older MAW productions often were just fun records based on
cool sounds, and had little or no element of true "soul". A lot of the early Fingers Inc stuff was really basically techno. I love
it all... and wish more DJs would represent that in their sets.... the best of all worlds, programmed together in a way that
created a NEW overall sound... or what I call the "aural abstract painting".
And that's when DJing becomes art.... and you feel like you're really hearing someone express themselves. Anyone can
play records... but only a few are creating art.
Mark Motive:
That's a brilliant closing! Thank you so much for your time!
A legend and pioneer in North America's house music scene.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Motive:
Thanks for taking the time to do this interview. Let's start at the beginning...how did you get into DJing?
Mitch Winthrop:
It was 1979. I used to go to a youth centre every Friday night when I was a kid. It was in Elia Junior High, not far from Jane
& Finch. They'd open up the school for floor hockey and basketball. Basically just to keep the kids off the street.
Me and my friends were little disco/funk kids. We used to spend our Saturday nights listening to CKFM's Saturday night
disco show, live from Sparkles nightclub. And we were at that age where we were all becoming horny kids.... so we wanted
to have a disco dance to play all the music we taped off the radio, and to dance with girls.
So we convinced the organizer to let us DJ a dance... and me and about 5 other friends got together and pooled our stereos
and went to Long & McQuade to rent some speakers and a mixer. It was like The Little Rascals or Our Gang trying to put on
a show. Everyone pitched in. People we didn't know brought disco lights... and we had this dance in the gym, playing the
music we taped off the radio.
We made enough money to go for pizza with our "crew" after the dance.
Mark Motive:
So were you going reel to reel or were you using regular home stereo tape decks?
Mitch Winthrop:
Back in those days cassettes were our world. Doing pause button edits were the beginning of what later would become our
mix-tapes. But we used vinyl too. 12 inch singles were relatively a new concept, so these HUGE one-song records were
fascinating to me... But ya, that first dance featured a lot of stuff we had on cassette.
No reel to reels back then for us. I don't think I ever starting using reels until much later.
Mark Motive:
So did that dance give you the bug to keep going? How did you feel after doing it?
Mitch Winthrop:
I think I already had a pretty strong bug... not so much to DJ, although I was interested in the concept of DJing, but more for
music. I was obsessive about music from the time I was really little.
In hindsight, I probably was fascinated with DJing... I used to wait for the Wolfman on that Hilarious House of Frightenstien
show... I remember seeing American Hot Wax, the movie about Alan Freed, the radio DJ who gave birth to the term "Rock &
Roll"... it all was a huge interest of mine.
Mark Motive:
Where did you get your musical obsession from?
Mitch Winthrop:
When I was really little, I would get allowance. I can't remember how much... but it was probably only a couple bucks. I
might have been 8 years old... and I would walk from my house over by Sentinel and over to Jane Finch Mall to Towers...
Every week I’d get a taco (cuz there was no Taco Bell back then) and one 45 from the record store there. They had the
CHUM Chart on the wall... with cubby holes for each single, in the order of the latest "top 40 CHUM (am) Chart"... and then I'd
walk back home eating my taco and ready to play that one 45 every day, all day until next week when I could buy another.
I'm not sure what sparked the love for music. It might have been the idea of just having a new cool looking round thing to
play. But I was definitely developing discerning taste.
Mark Motive:
So after that dance did you continue to do more? How did you develop into DJing more regularly?
Mark Motive:
And did it help you get chicks? haha
Mitch Winthrop:
oh ya... two of the guys in our "crew" were from a huge extended Jamaican family.... so we were all getting opportunities to
do backyard and basement parties. That Sean Paul video for "Get Busy" is very much similar to what we were doing
(although we were playing everything from Earth Wind & Fire, lots of disco and funk, and of course reggae too). By the time I
was entering high school we were doing a lot of school dances, parties for friends, and LOTS of sweet sixteen parties. By
now this was the mid-eighties, so we were all about funk (which back then included the first hip-hop records, R&B/soul,
electro and of course all the REAL funk stuff). We even got into some new wave too.
I'm not sure if DJing got us chicks... but this was around the time we were 16, so we were fully chasing girls by then.
I'd like to think my cute looks and charm got me the chicks.
Mark Motive:
hah
Mitch Winthrop:
It wasn't until much later (now?) that I got dates just cuz I was a DJ. lol
Mark Motive:
So we're in the mid-eighties now and house music is starting to evolve into something in NYC and Chicago...what was
your experience?
Mitch Winthrop:
I was already fully DJing by the mid-80s. I guess in hindsight I was a bit of a "prodigy" among my friends... cuz I was still in
highschool, and I had hooked up with a DJ agency I saw advertise in the newspaper... I went down to an interview with them
and had to audition. By grade 12 I was doing 2-3 nights a week... often just filling in for other DJs.... making about $75 a
night.
So by 18 I was making over $200 a week DJing in places like O'Tooles, Pat & Marios, Pete & Marty's... and I was always
obsessive about the new, hot thing to play as a DJ.
At the same time, by 16 I was starting to go to The Twilight Zone.
So from going there, which at first WASN'T playing house music, but was featuring a lot of the other stuff I was into (electro,
funk, good upbeat soul/R&B, freestyle), and from already constantly being on top of the latest dance records, I started to
hear what would later be labeled "House Music".
Mark Motive:
Now, some people hated it when they first heard it, and then grew to like it...what did you think?
Mitch Winthrop:
But I don't think the first "real" house records started to emerge until I was about 18-19.
Those people I'm not aware of. I LOVED house from day ZERO. And so did just about everyone I knew.
There were a lot of records that came out that we didn't think of as "house" until much later. In fact, my friends were calling
that music "Zone Music" cuz that's where we heard most of it. Like friends would say, "I got this wicked cassette of Zone
music." and also, by then I was starting to get obsessive about my other passion, radio. So I was coming back from New
York with tapes of the radio shows there.
Most music doesn't get a name until someone in the media (often the UK music press) gives it a name. We just thought it
was this new sound of dance music... although I think we were probably still calling it "funk" back then... or some sub-genre
of it. It wasn't until Dance Music Report (THE magazine for DJs back then) started to talk about this new style of music... and
said it was..."house".
In hindsight, cuz we weren't really conscious of it at the time, it was soon after that all these UK compilations started to come
out with the word "House" in it. I remember reading an article in DMR saying house was the new hot thing... and when they
described it, it was all these new (somewhat unique) records I already had.
(By the way, DMR was actually a New York based magazine. Not a UK one.)
Mark Motive:
Was this around the time you progressed from basement parties/backyard parties to playing in the club scene?
Mitch Winthrop:
But I should stress, I think it probably had to be my experiences at The Twilight Zone that really fueled my attraction to this
new music. I mean, I could've easily gone down the Freestyle or hip-hop (which back then I loved equally) path had I hung
out at a different club.
Well, I was already DJing in clubs by then through that agency. By the time I was out of highschool I was DJing at Mr.
Grummps, which had three locations. I had one of my first real "residencies" at the one in Richmond Hill... but I often filled
in at the one in the Atrium near the Eaton Centre and the one at Yonge & Eglinton (now a Mandarin restaurant). Mr.
Grummps was actually pretty hot...for what it was, cuz a lot of people would go there and eat and dance until it closed... and
then go to the Twilight Zone. So... I was able to play a lot of similar music... as well as new-wave-ish stuff like Pet Shop
Boys, Depeche Mode, Magazine 60....
This was all around '87 by then.
And at that point, I was just starting my first year at York U. Before I even went to my first class, I went to CHRY to beg for a
radio show. I had already been listening to CKLN... so I really wanted my own show. Any show. It didn't even have to be a
house music show.
Mark Motive:
So how did that turn out?
Mitch Winthrop:
I had to do a bit of begging until they let me do a show. But my timing was lucky. The radio station was still only closed-
circuit... but the week they finally gave me (what was then called) the "nightclubbing" show, CHRY had JUST got their FM
license. So for the first 6 months or so I would do this show that only other students would hear.... if they cared enough to
turn the volume up in the various cafeterias on campus.
And then, once the station was ready with its new transmitter, the following spring, I had already had the show and a bunch
of months of "practice."
This was 1987 still when CHRY went on FM.
Mark Motive:
What were you taking at York? What were your career aspirations at that point? Were you thinking DJ full time?
Radio? Both?
Mitch Winthrop:
Again, in hindsight... I think I only went to York because it was the thing to do. I was an English/Mass Communications
major. I really wanted to do radio stuff. I loved the Mass Comm classes. Hated the English (although now I'm glad I took
those classes). I even had a few "electives" like this class, "Popular music and its role in defining 20th Century culture" (or
something like that...it's been a few years). I loved that class. But again, by then I was already doing a LOT of DJing in clubs.
Mark Motive:
How did you go from that point to Keys to the House?
Mitch Winthrop:
Hmm... well the CHRY show was The Rhythm Method. Did that for 10 years, before I passed the show on to Nick
Holder.
Since it was essentially a "college/university radio show, I wasn't getting paid. But I was getting a lot of DJ gigs out of it.
By the early 90s, I was asked to DJ at The Phoenix... as part of this huge new house night with Scott Cairns. It ended up
being live-to-air on Energy 108.... which I got to host too thanks to having experience on CHRY. I was probably horrible
then... but it was a great little era.
From there, I got to host another Energy 108 live-to-air on Saturday nights, live from Klub Maxx.
Mark Motive:
Was that with 'deadly Hedley'?
Mitch Winthrop:
So ya, it was around then that I gave the CHRY show to Nick, cuz I was living downtown (getting to York was a bitch every
week) and I felt 10 years was enough. Plus I thought doing the Energy thing was the next step.
No, it wasn't WITH Hedley, but it was where I first met him.
He did the Klub Maxx show before me. There were a few hosts between him and I. The owners were scumbags, always
hiring and firing DJs.
So....from there I also got asked to do Wayne Williams house show on Energy 108 for a while... before they cancelled the
show. Around that time (mid 90s by now), I was hearing house music on CHIN late at night.
So I fired off a letter to them to see if I could get on board. It was very raw what they were doing and ended up being a big
headache trying to deal with certain shady people there. But the good thing was that I got to get to know Don Berns, who
was the PD for CHIN's Global Groove after-hours shows.
I ended up quitting CHIN cuz I couldn't handle the shadiness, and Don soon left as well, for pretty much the same reason....
a year or so of a lull... and one day I'm walking up Yonge Street and I see Don. He said he wants me to come be a part of
this new "internet" radio station. I was skeptical of internet radio then, but I thought I'd try it out. That was the beginning of
Iceberg Media/Iceberg Radio.... and 1GROOVE.com.
I did two shows for 1GROOVE, one being Keys to the House.
(So that answers your question from an hour ago about Keys to the House. lol)
Mark Motive:
Haha. So was this also around the time you got into production?
Mitch Winthrop:
I should add that my skepticism about doing an internet show was quelled quickly... because I was already getting loads of
email from all over the world from listeners.
And it helped that after about a year or so, Iceberg struck a deal with CIUT to simulcast my show (and others) after hours....
so I had this 5 hour Saturday night show that was on FM in Toronto and on the net. The response was mind-blowing for me.
Production: I had already got into production way earlier.
My first things were (to connect with your past questions) done on reel-to-reel... just things I made for my radio show. I think
the first thing I did was a remix of "Get On the Dancefloor" by Rob Base & Easy Rock, which was already a house song... or
hip house.
And the agency I worked for was toying with the idea of starting a label..... so I pushed them to let me do the first release,
which ended up being this silly disco-inspired sample track called "Everybody's Going Disco Crazy"... and another track
where I basically ripped off "And I Love You" by Satoshi Tomiie.
Mark Motive:
How was the reaction to your early productions?
Mitch Winthrop:
I did it with this guy Dominic Macri and Dave Campbell helped out.
I kind of ended up doing a lot of the grunt work for that first release, cuz I was determined to prove that the label was a good
idea for that DJ agency. So I was driving to the pressing plant, printers.... and back then they had this annual convention, not
unlike the WMC, but it was in New York, called the New Music Seminar.
So I went down to the NMS with loads of copies of the record... gave out a bunch to all the big DJs and went to all the record
stores in New York to leave copies on consignment there.
By the end of the week, all the shops were calling me asking for more... and during the Seminar I took the Path Train out to
New Jersey to go to The Zanzibar to give copies to Tony Humphries, who by then was by far my favourite DJ (although I liked
many others too).
Tony played it at some major industry events that were part of the NMS, and he played it on his radio show...
Mark Motive:
That's amazing man! A little elbow grease can go a long way.
Mitch Winthrop says:
One of the HAPPIEST moments in my life was being at this party held by Nervous, Strictly Rhythm, Eightball, Ace Beat and
some other labels. Every house music person in the world was there. I met Tee Scott that night, and many others. And at
the peak of the party, I'm dancing... and my girlfriend at the time punches me in the arm, going "Isn't this your song??" I just
got on a chair and watched all these "famous" industry people dancing to my first record.
Mark Motive:
Amazing!
Mitch Winthrop:
So because Tony played it, by the time I got home from New York, my answering machine was FULL (it was the old cassette
type answering machines) of requests for copies and invites to DJ all over the world.
I did start to get offers to travel based on that. I thank Tony every time I see him. I ended up DJing in Germany... and I
asked the German label that was flying me over if I could bring Nick Holder along with me, cuz I didn't want to go alone.
They were totally into that since Nick was already putting out records too, and he had a few that were huge there. So that
was the first overseas gig.
Mark Motive:
What year was this again?
Mitch Winthrop:
And, I should add that it was that trip that helped get me the Phoenix gig too.... (sorry I know I'm out of chronology here with
these stories). It was early 90s. 1992 I think. Muchmusic and Now Magazine had found out that this local DJ went to play in
Germany so I got some hype from them... which in turn, I guess, gave me some clout as a DJ in the eyes of some
promoters.
Mark Motive:
It's funny how fame makes you more famous.
Mitch Winthrop:
I guess. Or how when you're making way more money, you get more things for free!
Mark Motive:
Probably a fun thing to enjoy, but difficult to manage in the long-run. Now you're not just thinking about DJing and
making good music, but you have to start thinking of your 'brand' in a way. Did that affect your decision making?
Mitch Winthrop:
I was really wary of the "fame" thing. Some things were nice... like getting asked for autographs from young DJs... and the
often great feedback from the request lines...but I never took it for granted. It's not like we're curing cancer. And some of it is
quite negative: Other DJs trying to fuck you over for gigs, resentful DJs cuz you're employed when they're not, people who
constantly say you suck cuz you don't play their particular brand of music.... and many young DJs don't understand what's
involved with STAYING employed in this game.
You can't just go into a club the size of The Phoenix, a club that HAS to make $$, and play the latest, deepest house music,
no matter how much you love it. Certainly not back then anyway. Staying employed always involved compromise...
satisfying the majority of the crowd, satisfying the owner by way of bar sales, the promoter... etc. So I would get bummed
out when I heard other DJs were trash talking and trying to get me fired. Granted back then I was younger and much more
concerned with what people thought. Now I don't give a shit.
But it wasn't until long after The Phoenix that I really started to be happy with myself as a DJ. I don't think I was very good
back then. By the time I got to 1GROOVE and I was doing Keys to the House, I was starting to consciously forge new
territory. House was already around for well over a decade, so I wanted to try and do something unique. I wanted to bring
back that "excited" feeling...
we all got when house music first started... so I started to explore other types of house.... and was trying to find a way to
make the more soulful stuff work together with the bigger more progressive sounds I was getting turned on to.
I don't know if it was me plotting my "brand" per se, but I definitely was making an effort to NOT sound like any other DJ as
much as possibly, while still playing music that made people have some sort of emotional, cathartic experience.
I should add that after the Phoenix, I was also lucky enough to be a part of some other little "house music eras", like Power
Bar... which was amazing for what it was... and gave me a chance to test out some of my new musical ambitions to a crowd
on the dance floor. I was also starting to do a fair bit of DJing in the gay club scene (which I LOVE doing to this day).... and
that scene tends to be way more positive, fun and open-minded.... so I was totally able to explore playing the stuff I liked that
I probably couldn't play for the deep house purists in the straight house scene. Unfortunately by the mid 90s the two scenes
were already become segregated. In the early days it was very mixed. The Twilight Zone was, which was a large part of the
club's appeal. Everyone coming together, no matter who you were, all for the music.
Mark Motive:
I remember that from the warehouse party days...why did the gay people leave the scene?
Mitch Winthrop:
That's your perspective as a "breeder". LOL
They didn't "leave"... the two just split into separate scenes.
And as such, each's music went in different directions.
Mark Motive:
True - but the integration was what I really liked. I guess the gay scene is a bit more progressive/harder sounding?
Mitch Winthrop:
Well, hmm... that's a Pandora ’s Box of a question....
I think if you asked some different people, you'd get varying answers. The gay crowd tends to be much more FORWARD
thinking... in fashion, music.... So they were drawn to the new sounds... while the straight house scene tends to be very
much (and I'm generalizing to make my point) mired in the past.... much of the deep stuff to this day pays tribute to the
organic sound of disco.
Some would say the gay crowd got too "hard" musically. I don't think of it that way. Some would say the straight crowd was
boring (and there's no doubt the parties became that way)... and of course when the straight crowd dominates the dance
floor, there's homophobia.
and there's no doubt that the gay crowd probably didn't want their parties infiltrated by a bunch of drunk breeders who are
there for different reasons.
But there have always been some level of mixing in the crowds. By the mid 90s I had started to go to a lot of what would be
described as "circuit parties"... predominantely gay, huge events... that at first featured AMAZING tribal house... which was
always my favourite sub-genre.
But those parties, even with crowds the size of 30,000 in Olympic Stadium in Montreal, had about 20% or more of a straight
crowd there.
And they tended to be the "best" straight people, for lack of a better word. Beautiful women... everyone really open-minded,
positive, incredible vibe.... (the ecstasy helped, but it was much more than that fueling the experience)... while the straight
house scene started to become nothing more than "naval gazers".... a culture of misery, complainers, badmouthers and this
silly obsession with everything being "Deep" and "Soulful"... to the point that "FUN" wasn't important. It became very much
"musical jungle feverism"... as long as it sounded like a black guy did it, it was good.... and anything else was considered
"garbage" music.
Mark Motive:
I've noticed that. It's almost like you have to write 'soul' somewhere on a flyer for it to be accepted.
Mitch Winthrop:
I mean, I love my music to have raw emotion... but I wanted things to sound new, exciting.... fun.... and have some dark,
sexual energy in it too.
So I got bored with the deep house scene. BUT I should stress that in the last 5 years or so, that scene has risen to
become great again in many ways... thanks to a few key DJs who kept the soul but brought the fun back!
Mark Motive:
Which DJs do you like? Locally
Mitch Winthrop:
There’s some guys from my era that I think are, or have been, brilliant. Scott Cairns, Mark Falco (and Mark Motive!), Kevin
Williams.... shit I'm scared to name names cuz I know I'll forget someone major! These are DJs who often made me feel
like I wasn't in Toronto... cuz unfortunately most of the house DJs in Toronto were just imitating the New York DJs. And most
were only about playing their latest test pressings in some lame "penis-envy" attempt to one up the other Djs, instead of just
making a wicked party for those on the dance floor. It's sad cuz there's a whole generation of people who were "raised" on
that type of DJing and think it's good. It's NOT. It's boring and self-indulgent.
As for today... I've heard lots of great DJs that have restored my faith in the music and the city.... like Dale Arsenault... Johnny
Lopez.
But there are many more.... I've always loved hearing good DJs as much as I've loved playing myself. So pretty much ANY of
the DJs I've invited to play on my old radio shows I felt were great. Nathan Barato is one guy that always surprised me by
playing something I never thought he'd play.... and making it work.
Mark Motive:
Thanks for the plug! Let’s look towards the future now.
Mitch Winthrop:
Always!
Mark Motive:
Where do you see the scene going? What do you think needs to happen?
Mitch Winthrop:
Perspective is everything in life. I would never profess to speak for the scene.... but for ME to stay excited I would love to see
more musical open-mindedness.... and people being more forward thinking. I love my old records.... I love my old disco
records!!! But I don't want to keep reliving that feeling with the new records. I hear about "hot" records all the time and when
I go to listen...
to them, I often feel like, "ya, it's good.. But I've got a warehouse space on Dufferin filled with records that already sound like
that."
I don't mean anyone has to start playing "progressive" stuff if that's not their thing.... but I wish the deep stuff PROGRESSED
more. It sort of has with the techy stuff from Jerome Sydenham, Tiger Stripes, Pasta Boys... and even a lot of the Dennis
Ferrer stuff, which I love.... but I guess if I had a WISH, it would be that people went out with the attitude of having a great time
to a NEW experience.... and people (especially in the straight house scene) didn't get their backs up when the music didn't
EXACTLY fit their own criteria. I love that feeling of "wow, I never thought I would like this or be dancing to this!" I love when
DJs shock me by playing something totally out of their normal comfort zone. I wish there was more of that. Chance taking.
Forging NEW territory...musically.
And ALWAYS, I wish there was more kindness and INTEGRITY amongst fellow DJs. There are still way too many sleazy
people in this scene doing it for all the wrong reasons.
But I really don't have many complaints these days. I'm loving life and LOVING DJing again... and often very impressed with
the way things are now.
Mark Motive:
One last question. The younger crowds...what are your thoughts?
Mitch Winthrop:
Umm... well, not being "young" anymore... lol... I can't really speak for them. Thanks to the SHITTY state of radio today, most
are into horrible hip-hop and R&B (I love hip-hop and good soul, but that shit on the radio has to go!).
And as far as "electro" is... it's just the latest in a long line of house evolutions... like acid, hip-house, whatever. And like
anything, there's a lot of crap and some great stuff if you're willing to look for it. That's true of "garage" or "deep house" as
well, but if you love that music you don't notice the bad stuff as much. I've found quite a bit of electro I like, actually...
especially the ones that have some element of soul (read: raw emotion) in it.
But again, I don't obsess about soulful music. If it's there, great. I'll likely love it more.... but I have no problem liking records
just cuz they're fun.... or unique... or based around a cool sample or sound. Ironically, the people that obsess about soul
often forget that many of their favourite "classic house" records were basically techno and devoid of anything "soulful"… like
Voodoo Ray... or some of the old Todd Terry stuff... Even the older MAW productions often were just fun records based on
cool sounds, and had little or no element of true "soul". A lot of the early Fingers Inc stuff was really basically techno. I love
it all... and wish more DJs would represent that in their sets.... the best of all worlds, programmed together in a way that
created a NEW overall sound... or what I call the "aural abstract painting".
And that's when DJing becomes art.... and you feel like you're really hearing someone express themselves. Anyone can
play records... but only a few are creating art.
Mark Motive:
That's a brilliant closing! Thank you so much for your time!